宣公上人講於一九八六年十月二十四日 A Lecture by Venerable Master Hua on Oct 24, 1986
迦旃延譯為文飾，若有論議無文采者，而修飾之。才華超群，善巧辯論，令外道悅服。一日，執斷外道問：「惡人死後受苦，應當回還，死而不還，知無他世。」尊者曰：「如世罪人，被囚牢獄，焉得歸來？」又問：「善人死後生天，何故不歸？」曰：「如人墮廁得出，豈肯再入？」雄辯無礙，令對方無法以應，為論議第一。尊者善於夢中教化眾生，令發菩提心，證菩提道。
“Katyayana” means “Literary Embellishment.” If there was an discourse or argument lacking literary elegance, he would polish it. With preeminent talents, he was skilled at debating and able to convince and delight practitioners of external paths. One day, a practitioner of the external path who stubbornly believed in annihilism asked him, “If an evil person has to suffer after he dies, then he should come back and let others know about it. However, nobody returns after they die. Isn’t this proof that there are no future lives?” The Venerable Mahakatyayana said, “It is just like the criminals in the world who are imprisoned—how could they possibly return home?” The practitioner then asked, “If a wholesome person ascends to the heavens after he dies, how is it that no one ever comes back?” The Venerable One answered, “It is like someone who has fallen into the toilet and managed to get out—would he be willing to go back in again?” His unimpeded eloquence left his opponents speechless. Therefore he was considered foremost in debate. The Venerable Mahakatyayana was also skilled at teaching and transforming living beings in their dreams, inspiring them to bring forth the Bodhi resolve and realize the Bodhi Way.
有國王弟子，名為眉稀羅王，於山中修行，被鄰國之王所欺，欲復此辱，要求還俗，尊者允之，但留一宿。夢中，如何整軍，如何討伐，如何被擒。驚醒，向尊者懺悔，修忍辱行，成就道業。
He had a disciple called VÁraua. This disciple used to be a king, and when he was practicing the Way in the mountain, his country was bullied and insulted by the king of the neighboring country. Thus he wanted to return to lay life to seek revenge. Venerable Mahakatyayana agreed on condition that he stayed for a night. During that night, he dreamt about how he organized his army, went on a punitive expedition, and was captured. In shock, he awoke from his dream and went to Mahakatyayana to repent. Thereafter, he cultivated patience and eventually accomplished the Way.
贊曰 A verse in praise says：
賦性聰慧 善巧飾文
宗旨獨立 雄辯絕倫
清高離俗 排難解紛
降伏外道 不染垢塵
Endowed with intelligence and wisdom, gifted with literary talents,
Principled and sovereign, with unsurpassed eloquence.
Loftily apart from the mundane, he removes difficulties and resolves disputes.
Untainted and immaculate, he subdues practitioners of external paths.
又說偈曰 Another verse says：
惡者入獄故難還 善士離垢不復沾
論議第一超俗類 雄辯蓋世勝邪言
善巧方便說諸法 威德感召化三千
度人無量功勳普 圓滿菩提道德全
Evil people are imprisoned and cannot return.
Good people transcend defilement and do not wish to be stained again.
Foremost in debate, he surpasses the mundane.
With unparalleled eloquence he triumphs over heretical doctrines
Skillfully and expediently speaking all dharmas
With mighty virtue he inspires and transforms all within the trichiliocosm
Liberating limitless people and performing universal meritorious deeds.
Bodhi is perfected, his virtue is complete.
【淺釋】 Commentary:
迦旃延這位尊者在佛教裡邊是「論議第一」。你一般人想不到的道理，他能發揮出來；你一般人說不出來的真義，他能說出來，說得你心服口服。不是用勢力壓迫人，他是用辯才無礙來辯論，贏得一般人的佩服，所以叫論議第一。
Venerable Mahakatyayana was “Foremost in Debate” in Buddhism. He was able to elaborate on principles that no one could even think of. He could speak of truths that ordinary people could not speak of. Thus, he caused one to be absolutely convinced. Instead of using force and power to oppress others, he used his unimpeded eloquence in debate to win public admiration. Therefore, he was considered the “Foremost in Debate.”
他這個名字翻譯過來叫「文飾」。文飾：文是有文采可觀；飾就是修飾。誰的文章若寫得不怎麼圓滿，他這麼一修正，就變成很好的文章了，所以叫文飾。這個文飾並不是說文過飾非，並不是說他有了過錯，自己能把它遮掩住，叫人看不出來是非；他有什麼不對的地方，令旁人也不知道。不是這個！這是修飾，有文采，所以他的才華很高的。
His name means “Literary Embellishment.” “Literary” means that he had considerable literary talent. If a composition was poorly written, he could turn it into an excellent piece with some correction and polishing. Therefore, he was called “Literary Embellishment.” “Literary Embellishment” does not mean concealing faults and glossing over wrongs. It does not mean that he could cover up his own mistakes so others would be unable to distinguish between right and wrong or that he could keep others in the dark about his faults. This was not the case! This was literary grace. Therefore, his talents were preeminent.
他明白道理是很正確的。因為他正確，所以和人辯論上來，他有一個主觀。他這個主觀是什麼呢？就是真理。他把這個真理一說出來，旁人誰也不能不佩服的，他有這個本領。
He understood principles correctly, and his views were always proper. Whenever he was debating with someone, he would have his view or perspective which reflected the truth. Once he spoke of this truth, it would be impossible for any bystander not to admire him and be convinced. Such was the capability that he possessed.
有很顯著的一個例子，就有一個執斷執常的外道執斷，他說一定是這個樣子，沒有前因後果，沒有來生沒有前生，這是斷；執常，他說我們做人永遠都是做人，沒有什麼又是起惑造業受報，沒有這個。那麼就和他來辯論。
A very remarkable example will illustrate this point. There was a practitioner of the external path who upheld the view of annihilism and eternalism. This practitioner was very adamant in his belief of annihilism, which means there are neither past causes and future retribution, nor future lives and previous lives; to hold the view of permanence means to believe that as long as we are human beings, we will be human beings forever—we will not give rise to confusion, create karma and undergo the retribution—such things do not exist. So, this practitioner came to Mahakatyayana to debate with him.
拿什麼問？他說，「人人都說這個造惡的人，死後了就要遭受報應，遭受痛苦，可是你看看所有的人，死了之後，沒有一個人回來向大家說他受什麼痛苦，怎麼樣不好，沒有的！你看見有這樣的人嗎？這個人死了，他又回來告訴大家這個消息？沒有！既然沒有，我知道這是這麼想像，死了之後沒有來生了。」就這麼說。「若有來生，他為什麼不回來報告一下，叫我們人都知道，再也不做惡了？那他不回來，當然是沒有啦！」
What did he ask? He said, “Everyone says that those who do evil will undergo retributions and endure suffering after they die. Yet, just take those who died. None of them have ever returned to tell everyone of the suffering that they have undergone after they died. Have you ever seen such a person—a person who returned to tell everyone the news after he died? No! Since you haven’t seen any, I know that this is just our imagination. After a person dies, there will not be a future life. If there are future lives, why doesn’t he return to inform us so that all of us will stop doing evil? Since he never comes back, of course, there are no future lives.”
這講得理直氣壯的，可是迦旃延他不費吹灰之力，就給解答了，說，「你知道為什麼呢？就好像世間人犯罪了，被人家捉去關到監獄裡了，在監牢這個人他想出來，那麼容易可以出來嗎？所以他沒回來報告，是因為他被人看起來了，所以就不自由不能回來。」
He spoke justly and forcefully; however, without exerting the slightest effort, Mahakatyayana defeated the challenge. He said, “Do you know why? It is just like a prisoner in the world. Is it easy for this person to get out of the prison? He never returns to report to everyone because he is locked up and does not have the freedom to return.”
這個外道說，「好！你這樣說，這個造罪的人沒回來報告，這就算你說得對了。可是這個做善的人說升天，他造罪人他回來不報憂；那麼升天的人他應該回來報告喜信，報告佳音。他到了天上怎樣快樂，怎樣享福，怎麼樣好，他應該回來說一說，告訴世間的人。那麼他為什麼也不回來呢？」
This practitioner of the external path said, “Okay! Let’s say you are right in explaining why a person who has committed a crime does not return to inform everyone. But it is said that those who do good will ascend to the heavens. Even if those who committed a crime do not return to report the bad things, those who have ascended to heaven should return to report the good news. He should tell us how happy he is and how he enjoys his blessings in the heavens. He should at least return to tell the people in the world a little bit. Then why doesn’t he ever return?”
迦旃延就說，「我們這個世界就像廁所似的，人都在這廁所裡，弄得大便小便在，全身都臭不可聞。那麼他可一下子從這個廁所跑出去了，你還叫他再跳到廁所裡，他幹嗎？他還願意再跳到廁所裡？像那個小孩子，他不懂事情，大便在後邊那兒他也不收拾乾淨了；他若懂了，才不會帶著那個東西呢！他再到這個廁所裡頭來做什麼？」這外道也語塞了，沒什麼話講了，類似這個事情很多。
Mahakatyayana said, “Our world is like a toilet, and we are living in it, with feces and urine all over our body, giving off an unbearable stench. If this person escaped from the toilet, do you expect him to plunge back in again? Do you think he would be willing to do that? It is just like a toddler who doesn’t know anything. After he has defecated, he doesn’t know how to clean himself; if he understood, he would not let the filth stay on his body. Why would he want to return to the toilet?” The practitioner of the external path was left speechless and unable to respond. There were many cases like this.
所以他是能言善辯的，是橫說橫有理，是豎說豎有理。他頭頭是道，講什麼都是道理，並不是強詞奪理，而是合情合理，所以他論議第一。
Therefore, Mahakatyayana was eloquent and always correct no matter what he said. When he spoke, he reasoned well, and whatever he said would be principled. Instead of using sophistry and fallacious reasoning, he argued fairly and sensibly. Accordingly, he was the foremost in debate.
這位尊者又善於在夢中教化眾生。我們人人都會作夢，在夢裡頭又是發財，又是當官，又是做國王，又是中狀元，啊！有很多好夢，甚至於作夢結婚了。總而言之，有說不完那麼多的好夢，也有說不完這麼多壞夢。
Venerable Mahakatyayana was also very skilled at teaching and transforming living beings in their dreams while they were asleep. We all dream; in our dreams, we may make a fortune, become a government official, or become a top scholar. Ah! There are lots of good dreams. We even dream that we get married. In brief, there are ineffably many good dreams; there are also ineffably many bad dreams.
這個迦旃延，他善於在夢裡頭，他因為知道人，你和他說法他不相信，你要是在夢裡頭給他像演電影似的，叫他看見過去的、未來的、現在的這種情形，他能觸境覺悟。所以，他在夢裡常常度人。
Mahakayayana knew that some people would not believe the Dharma if you spoke it to them. If you let them see past, future, and present situations in their dreams—just like in a movie—they would become awakened upon encountering the circumstances. Therefore, he frequently crossed over people in dreams.
那麼有一個國王是拜迦旃延做師父，就出家了。出家了，可是鄰國的國王就欺負他這個國家。啊！他就放不下了，就要還俗去征討對方這個國王，要去和他開戰鬥一鬥。那麼向迦旃延要求，請迦旃延給許可還俗，他好去整軍伍到前線作戰去。於是乎向迦旃延一要求，迦旃延就答應了，說，「好的！可是你在這住一宿之後再走。」於是，他就住了一宿。
There was a king who bowed to Mahakatyayana as his teacher and joined the monastic life. After becoming a monk, his country was bullied and humiliated by the neighboring country’s king. The former king could not let it go; he wanted to return to the lay life to go on a punitive expedition against the king of the neighboring country. Therefore, he pleaded with Mahakatyayana to allow him to return to the lay life so that he could organize his army and go to the battlefront and fight. Mahakatyayana agreed, saying, “Okay! But you have to stay here for one night before you go.” Hence, he stayed there for one night.
在這一宿，這國王就作夢了，夢見他怎麼樣整頓軍隊，怎麼樣去討伐敵人。喔！可是戎機失敗，軍隊全軍覆沒，他自己也被人捉去了，被擒了。這被擒，是要被殺頭的。等要死了，這一驚他也就醒了，驚醒了。於是，他知道這不是很好玩的事情了，就向迦旃延懺悔，說，「我不還俗了，我不管這個閒事了！」於是，就修忍辱行，成就他的道業。所以這個迦旃延，他有這種的力量來感化人，來教化人。
That night, the former king had a dream. He dreamt about how he reorganized the army and sent armed forces to fight and vanquish the enemy. However, he lost the war, his army was completely annihilated, and he himself was captured. Once he was captured, he was to be decapitated. As he was about to die, he woke in shock from his dream. Therefore, he knew this matter was not much fun, so he went to Mahakatyayana to repent, saying, “I don’t want to return to the lay life anymore! I don’t want to care about this trivial matter anymore!” Accordingly, he cultivated patience and accomplished the Way. So Mahakatyayana had this ability to inspire, teach , and transform people.
贊曰 A verse in praise says：
「賦性聰慧」：這個贊就說他這種稟賦的性，是很聰明有智慧的。
Endowed with intelligence and wisdom. he was inherently intelligent and wise.
「善巧飾文」：他又善巧說法，又能文飾。
Gifted with literary talents. He was skilled at speaking Dharma, and also capable of writing and polishing literature.
「宗旨獨立」：他能立定宗旨目標。他是獨立的，不會搖動的。
Principled and sovereign. His tenets and principles [in discourses and debates] were well-established, unique, and could not be swayed by others.
「雄辯絕倫」：他這種雄辯的才華，誰也比不了的，沒有人能比得了的。
With unsurpassed eloquence. His talent in debate was preeminent and incomparable.
「清高離俗」：所以說他很清高的，很離俗的，不像一般的人那麼俗氣，俗不可耐的樣子，他的作風是和旁人不同的。
Loftily apart from the mundane. He was noble and apart from worldliness, unlike ordinary people who are unbearably vulgar. His style was different from that of others.
「排難解紛」：他能排除眾生的困難，解除眾生的紛擾。
He removes difficulties and resolves disputes. He could remove the difficulties of living beings, and resolve their disputes.
「降伏外道」：執常執斷這個外道和他一說，都被他說服了。前邊不說外道悅服？那個悅服是不容易的。說服，有的時候他口服心不服，可是他說得令外道心悅誠服，心裡頭都佩服他，所以這叫降伏外道。
He subdues practitioners of external paths. As soon as practitioners of external paths who stubbornly held the view of annihilism or the view of eternalism spoke with Mahakatyayana, they would be convinced by him, as previously mentioned, as well as becoming greatly delighted. This is not easy. Someone may simply profess to be convinced, while in his heart he is actually not. But Mahakatyayana was so persuasive that practitioners of external paths were sincerely convinced, and they admired him from the bottom of their hearts. This is called subduing practitioners of external paths.
「不染垢塵」：因為什麼他能降伏外道啊？就因為他自己本身不染垢塵，很清高，很守戒律的，所以這樣子。
Untainted and immaculate. Why was he able to persuade practitioners of external paths? It was because he was undefiled and immaculate, morally pure and strict in observing the precepts.
又說偈曰 Another verse says :
「惡者入獄故難還」：這個惡的人，也就好像被人圈到監獄裡。那麼他死了在那兒受報，他造的罪業要受果報，所以他不能回來通消息。根本就沒有這個道理，外道故意這麼立一個宗來和他狡辯，可是這麼給他一說理，外道也沒話講了。所以說惡者入獄，就像被人圈到監獄裡，犯罪的人圈到監獄裡，他沒有自由不能回來了。
Evil people are imprisoned and cannot return. A person who does evil is just like someone who is imprisoned. After he dies he has to undergo retribution for his offenses and cannot return to inform people. It just isn’t possible. A practitioner of an external path came up with such a theory to argue with Mahakatyayana. However, as soon as Venerable Mahakatyayana reasoned with him, this person had nothing to say. Therefore, evil people who have fallen into the hells are like criminals who are imprisoned; they are not free to return.
「善士離垢不復沾」：那麼善士，他是升天了。升天了就出離這個廁所了，離開這個邋遢的地方，所以他不會再回來受這種的苦，這種的染污。
Good people transcend defilement and do not wish to be stained again. When good people go to the heavens, it is as if they have escaped a toilet; they have left this filthy place. They are not willing to come back here to endure this kind of suffering and defilement.
「論議第一超俗類」：他是論議第一。超俗類，他是出乎其類，拔乎其萃。
Foremost in debate, he surpasses the mundane. He was exceptionally outstanding, towering above his fellow men.
「雄辯蓋世勝邪言」：他的辯才誰也比不了，超過旁門外道。
With unparalleled eloquence he triumphs over heretical doctrines. His eloquence was incomparable, triumphing over the heretical sects and external paths.
「善巧方便說諸法」：他有善巧方便這種辯論的口才，所以辯才無礙，說一切的諸法。Skillfully and expediently speaking all dharmas. A proficient orator of unimpeded eloquence, he could speak all dharmas.
「威德感召化三千」：他這種威德，這種的力量，感化三千大千世界，都是聞風向化的。With mighty virtue he inspires and transforms all within the trichiliocosm. All in the Three Thousand Great Thousand Worlds were moved and transformed by him as soon as they encountered his teachings because of the power of his awe-inspiring virtue.
「度人無量功勳普」：他度人很多，他的功勞也很大的。
Liberating limitless people and performing meritorious deeds. His merit was also enormous having taken so many people across.
「圓滿菩提道德全」：他對修行是很圓滿的，道德也很完全的。
Bodhi is perfected, his virtue is complete. His cultivation was perfect, and his moral virtue was also full.
我們大家不要學他這個論議第一，要學他這個道德，持戒律清高，要學這個。It may be alright not to emulate his unsurpassed skills in debate, but we should definitely emulate his morality and virtue, and to purely uphold the precepts.♦