A Talk Given by Professor Douglas Powers to Dharma Realm Buddhist University’s Venerable Master Legacy Club on November 13, 2019/ Chinese Translated by Wu Lianlian and Janet Lee
包果勒教授 2019年11月13日講於法界佛教大學「宣公上人志業傳承社」/ 吳蓮蓮、 李采眞 中譯 VBS 609
Editor’s Note: Douglas Powers has been a disciple of the Venerable Master since 1973, is a senior professor teaching undergraduate, graduate, and extension courses. He also serves as the Vice President of Finance and Administration at Dharam Realm Buddhist University. He has been actively involved in many aspects of DRBA over the past four decades, including helping form the Refugee and Resettlement Program at the City of Ten Thousand Buddhas (CTTB) in the late seventies through the eighties. He also serves as an administrator at IGDVS.編按：包果勒居士自1973年皈依宣公上人座下，目前是法界佛教大學本科班、碩士班及延展課程的資深教授。同時他也擔任法大財務及行政副校長。在過去的四十多年中，他積極參與了法界佛教總會的多個項目；包括在上世紀七十年代末到八十年代萬佛城的難民營計劃。他也在育良培德中小學擔任行政主管。
I have to be a bit personal, because everybody’s story of Master Hua is different. He treated everyone completely differently, so when every single person who was with Master Hua tells you about his or her own experience, which will be different. He treated everyone according to the conditions of that person.
關於師父的故事，每個人所表述的都不一樣，我想講講我個人的感受。師父點化每個人的方式可以說是大不相同，因此在談到與師父相處的點滴時，每個人都會敘述著自己的經歷。師父是這樣地觀機教化每一個人。
I had no interest in Buddhism. I was living in Berkeley in the sixties and seventies and trying out every possible kind of existence, from Hell’s Angels to Black Panthers to the London “rock scene.” I searched out and tried every kind of lifestyle that was available in the sixties and seventies. I don’t know if it was my good luck or bad luck, but I had the opportunity to spend time with a lot of different people.
早年我對佛教並不感興趣。在60、70年代，我住在柏克萊，當時的我正樂於嘗試各種可能的生活型態，好比從地獄天使（機車幫會）到黑豹（政黨）再到倫敦搖滾樂，我不停找尋並體驗了60年代和70年代所能找到的各種生活模式。我不知道這對我而言是我的好運還是我的壞運，不過我能有機會能結交很多不同類型的人。
While I was living a Hippie life, I finished my undergraduate, my master’s, and my teaching credentials in five years, and teaching at Berkeley High in 1969 at twenty-two years old. When I first ran into Master Hua, I had done quite a bit of traveling. I had roamed the world, hung out in the clubs, and had been a quite successful hippie. A lot of hippies were not that happy, but I was completely content being a hippie.
在那時候，我過著嬉皮般的生活，我花了5年的時間完成大學、碩士和教師認證資格，並於1969年22歲的我開始在柏克萊高中任教。當我初次見到宣化師父的時候，我已經旅遊了許多地方。我周遊世界各地，加入夜總會（夜店），是一個相當出色的嬉皮士。其實很多嬉皮士並不快樂，但我是很安於當個嬉皮士。
During the summer when I lived solo in the wilderness mountains for forty days, I questioned, “What was the psychological dynamic of that?” And while I was there, I realized that my mind didn’t have good control over itself. Someone told to me about Buddhism, so I found out about Gold Mountain Monastery.
暑假期間，我曾獨自一人在曠野深山度過40天。我捫心自問：「到底是什麼動力令我這樣做？」在荒山裡，我意識到，我根本無法管住我自己的心。此時，有人向我介紹佛教，我因此知道了金山寺。
I visited the monastery, but then I left to return to my happy hippie days. About a week later, I got a call from the abbot in San Francisco. The speaker said, “I’ve got someone on the phone for you.” And then Master Hua says, “Come back. Come back.” I said, “Come back where? I’m perfectly happy where —” “Come back.” The person who called me said, “Master Hua wants you to come back. We told him you were the only one who was here in the summertime and he wants you to come back.” Eventually, with a lot of misgivings, I decided to go back to Gold Mountain for a Chan session about three or four weeks later. I had to give up my summer vacation on the beach. I really suffered about giving up my vacation, for I saw no good reason to go to Gold Mountain.
我參訪了金山寺，最後還是重拾我的嬉皮士這種寫意生涯。大約一週後，我接到金山寺的來電。撥電話的人跟我說到：「有人要跟你講電話。」然後就聽到上人說：「回來吧，回來吧！」我說：「回來哪裡？我現在過得很愜意呢！」「回來吧！」打電話給我的人說：「上人要你回來。我們告訴他，你是唯一一個夏天來這裡的人，他希望你能回來。」最終，我滿懷疑惑，決定在3、4週後回金山寺打一個禪七。為此我得放棄夏日的海灘假期；為了去金山寺而放棄假期，這讓我感到很煎熬，我覺得沒理由令我這麼做。
I went back over there. I couldn’t cross my legs at all. About every six or eight hours in the sitting session, I was ready to leave. I was sitting there trying really hard to meditate, and I’d say, “Okay, that’s it!” and got up to leave. But Shifu was standing right there.
回到金山寺打七，我根本無法盤起雙腿（結雙跏趺坐）。在坐禪的期間，我是很努力在打坐，大約每6或8小時，我就想要離開，最後我跟自己說道「好了，就這樣吧！」隨即起身準備離去，但是，師父就會恰巧站在那兒。
He said, “Get to going? You going?” I said, “Yeah, yeah.” He said, “No, no, no,” and he reached in and handed me candies. “It’s okay, it’s okay, no problem. Here. Don’t be so afraid, it’s okay.” I said, “…Okay.”
師父說：「要走了？你要走了嗎？」我說：「是，是的！」他說：「別走，別走，別走！」他把手伸過來，把糖果遞給我，說：「沒事，沒事，沒問題！在這裡，別那麼害怕，這沒事的！」我說：「……好吧。」
As time went on, I spent more time over there. Shifu was lecturing maybe the Avatamsaka Sutra maybe two or three times a day, then went onto other sutras on Guanyin Bodhisattva and more. That was interesting. I brought Master Hua up to see the City of Ten Thousand Buddhas before we bought it. I started becoming the go-between, between the secular world and (at first) Gold Mountain Monastery. There wasn’t a lot of complexity at first. After we bought CTTB, and the new Gold Mountain Monastery in Chinatown, we started getting all of these different properties. Then all of a sudden, there were these complicated aspects of working with the government, working with lawyers, and working with real estate people.
隨著時間的推移，我待在金山寺的時間愈來愈長。師父那時講《華嚴經》，每天大概講二至三次，還兼講觀音法門和其它經典，那是很有意思的。在我們買下萬佛城現址之前，我幾次帶著師父去看那批物業（地產）。我成了俗世界和金山寺之間的中間人。其實一開始並沒有太複雜，但自從我們買下萬佛城和唐人街的新金山寺之後，我們有了幾處不同類型的房產。突然間，和政府、和律師、和地產經紀打交道的事變得複雜起來。
Mainly I worked with Shifu in spite of everyone thinking that [all I was doing was making sure he was] giving dharma lectures. In addition to his dharma talks, I mainly was working things he taught in terms of the way he interacted (and wanted us to interact) with the world. He was totally engaged in everything about the world.
我主要是在師父身邊做事，儘管大家都認為我不過是確保師父會給我們講法。除了他所講的佛法以外，我主要是做師父所教導怎樣和世界互動的方式（也是他希望我們能做到的）。師父非常關注世界上所發生的所有事情。
He wanted us, these little puny nothings, to do everything in the world that was possible about everything in the world. These was a gap of trillions of miles between what Shifu could see as to our possibilities and what we could imagine for ourselves. He seriously expected these punk kids to actually do everything about everything that there was to do within the conditional. Yes, we’re in the conditional, and you can only operate within the conditional. But insofar as that we are in the conditional, you should do everything you can to move the conditional in a certain direction.
師父希望我們這些不起眼的小人物，去做世界上所有一切可能的事。我們沒有那種想像力，師父對我們的期許，以及我們自身的可能性，這兩者之間有著百萬億英里的差距。他很期待我們這些小子們能夠在機緣下完成所有的事情。是的，我們受限於機緣；但是，即便被緣法左右，也應該盡其所能地讓機緣朝著既定方向發展。
That’s politics, economics, land, relationships, traveling, government. He wanted to invite every leader of the world to become “Honorary chancellors” for the university (DRBU.) “Send an invitation! We want everybody in the world! Just send it to everybody—all the presidents, kings, queens, dictators….” If you remember our early board members, there was President Sadat of Egypt and other prominent people. He put these people on our board. Early DRBU had all these world leaders as our honorary chancellors.
例如在政治、經濟、土地、人際關係、旅遊、政府方方面面。師父想邀請世界上所有的領導人到擔任法界佛教大學的榮譽校長。「發邀請函！我們要全世界的人都來！發給大家——所有的總統、國王、女王、獨裁者……」如果你們還記得法大早期的董事會成員，有埃及總統薩達特和其他著名領導人。上人將這些人列入我們的董事會成員。早期的法界大學的榮譽校長名單都有這些世界領導人。
We had all the famous politicians in San Francisco in Gold Mountain Monastery. Harvey Milk and Diane Feinstein came quite a few times. He said, “Go out and talk to all politicians. Be involved in everything there is in every realm of life. Politics, education, economics—there isn’t a single realm to not be involved in.”
我們在金山寺接待過所有舊金山著名的政治家，像是哈威・米爾克，以及范士丹，都來拜訪過幾次。師父說：「去和所有的政治家聊聊。要參與生活中各個領域的一切，政治、教育、經濟——沒有哪個領域是不能涉足的。」
In old Gold Mountain, we sat in meditation for an hour or two in the morning and an hour and a half in the afternoon with everyone. The schedule was to get up and sit for a couple of hours and start the day at 8:15am or something like that. That sitting was just your own time. Sitting Chan is what you do instead of sleeping; that’s when you’re resting. The rest of the time you have to be transforming the world in every possible way in every possible possibility. Yes, it’s true, you can’t move the world beyond its conditions. You can’t move a person beyond their conditions.
在早期的金山寺，我們早上靜坐一兩個小時，下午大家一起靜坐一個半小時。時間表就是起床後，晨間靜坐幾個鐘頭，然後從早上八時一刻就開始一天的行程，類似這樣。晨間靜坐是你個人的時間，是要你休息的時候坐禪而不是去睡覺。其餘的時間，你必須要以各種可能的方式去改變世界。是的，這是真的。你無法跳脫緣法去改變世界、改變人。
But Shifu saw the totality of the conditions. What’s interesting about being with someone who could see all the totality of conditions is that you can still only operate within where the conditions can go no matter whether you could see it all or not. Seeing the totality of all conditions doesn’t allow you to move any faster than the conditions. You have to be seeing the conditional – you have to be more patient. I don’t know if you can even use word patience to describe this, but he would talk about being very patient. The more you know, the more you see, and the more patient you have to be.
但是，師父看到了一切因緣的來龍去脈。待在一個能夠洞察一切因緣的人身邊的有趣之處是，無論你是否能看到所有的緣法，你仍然只須在現有的機緣下行動。看到所有因緣的來龍去脈，並不能讓你比這些因緣走得更快。你必須要看機緣，必須要有更多的忍耐心。我不知道是否可以用「忍耐心」來形容，但是師父會說要非常有忍耐心。你知道得愈多，看到其中就愈多，就更要有忍耐心。
Basically, just do everything you can possibly do, and just do it. Instead of sitting in a monastery meditating, we were constantly in activity like all the time in some huge project.
基本上，去做所有你能做的事；我們不是只是坐在寺院裡靜坐，而是像在做一項龐大的專案，不斷地進行。
When we first moved up to CTTB, a couple people were living in the fire house, and then we started working on Tathagata Monastery. You can imagine how crazy the place had been with 2000 patients. TM was the highest level of prison; its walls are atomic bomb proof!
當我們初初搬到萬佛城的時候，只有幾個人在消防屋住。接著，我們著手開始裝修如來寺的工作。你可以想像以前這個地方有2000名精神病患是怎樣瘋狂的場景。而且如來寺還曾經是個戒備森嚴，最高級別的監獄處，它的牆就連原子彈也能擋。
What we experienced in those days is not what people are experiencing here now. Then, it was the “Wildest West” that you’ve ever seen anything like it. Every day you had no idea what was going to happen. You could wake up in the morning and be in Bangkok the next day. Shifu just opened up the world, and what happens is that your little world just gets blown up into space. This idea that you live in space, it isn’t a theoretical construct that he’s telling you, but that you’re actually living in space.
以前那些日子我們所經歷的，並不是現在人們在這裡所能經歷的；那時，這裡可是你所見過最荒涼的西部。每天你都不知道會發生什麼，你可能早上一覺醒來，第二天人已到了曼谷。師父正在和世界接軌，如果你注意到，你會發現你從原有的小世界一下子被炸飛到太虛空。你生活在太虛空的這個想法，他會告訴你，這不是理論上的構思，而是你真的活在太虛空。
We bought this big property (CTTB.) It had its own waste treatment plant nearby. Heng Kuan who also came up signed some documents and bought the place. One of the problems is that he bought the CTTB property without knowing there was only a twenty-year lease on the waste treatment plant. There were a lot of mistakes he did that Shifu got pretty upset about, particularly the real estate deals.
我們買了萬佛城這個地方，它包含附近的廢水處理廠，是很大的地產。恒觀簽了些文件，購下這塊區域。其中一個問題是，他是在不知道廢水處理廠只有20年租約的情況下就簽下萬佛城現址這個地產。他犯了許多錯誤，這讓師父頗為不悅。
Anyway, we moved up here and Shifu told us that we’ll have everybody in the world here, that we’re going to have a conference here for one hundred of the world leaders. We told the master, “No, Shifu, this place isn’t quite ready. TM probably has a hundred thousand ghosts in there. We’re trying to recite for a couple ghosts here – we aren’t ready.” The place had 2000 mental patients and a hundred thousand ghosts wandering in TM (at the time). You can imagine how it was—two guys walking in the dark at night when no one else was around; it was actually really fun and exciting.
總之，我們搬到這裡，師父告訴我們，把世界上所有的人都找來，我們要在這裡開一個百大世界領袖會議。我們跟師父說：「不行啊，師父。這個地方還沒準備好。如來寺裡大概有10萬個鬼魂，我們正在為那些眾生誦經，我們還沒準備好。」這個地方曾經有過2000名精神病患和10萬個鬼魂在如來寺遊蕩。你們可以想像那是怎樣的情景——在空無一人的夜晚，兩個男人在黑暗中行走。那真的是很刺激、很有趣。
The conversation we had with Shifu was actually about the edge. The idea that we have a freedom; Shifu was basically trying to get across to us that we are going to get tied up in stuff and not have the freedom we really want with our current mind and what we considered freedom. “I have nothing against you guys, but in fact,” he said, “Well, most things I can’t say. You Westerners have a lot of potential freedom but you keep getting caught up in the same limitation of mind. The problem of course is you don’t learn to use that mind; you will get tied up with conditions and lose that freedom.” How do you go to the edge of your perception of freedom and engage in everything with this incredible wild freedom, and then maintain and not lose it from actions you take from it, and not get tied up in karmic conditions.
我們和師父談話的實際上是很機鋒的。我們對自由的看法；師父基本上想讓我們明白，我們是被某些東西束縛著，因此我們並沒有得到心中真正想要的所謂自由。「我對你們沒有什麼意見，事實上，」他說：「好吧，大多數的事情我都不能說。你們西方人有很多潛在的自由，但是你們總被同樣的想法束綁。當然，問題是你沒有學會使用那種思維，你就會被機緣左右，因而失去自由。」你如何走入自己所認知的自由緣境，並以這種不可思議的自由度來參與一切，但又不會因為自己的行為和業力所縛綁而失去自由？
He was trying to give us a sense of a balance between activity and our freedom to have Chan. Chan was about developing the stillness of the mind that becomes more and more free, that it could do more activity more intensely and be more involved in the conditional. The only thing keeping you from the totality of the conditional is the limitation of your perspective. The limitation of your own perspective is the self that actually contains your energy and not expand it. That use of yourself, in some kind of way, is so small and uninteresting. “You guys are so sad, I don’t get it. You have all this energy for freedom, yet your imagination is so small; you can only see this little world of your own existence. There’s nothing interesting about this.”
間取得平衡，這必須有禪修。坐禪的目的，是讓我們那顆愈加自由的心得到定力，讓它可以更密集地做更多活動，在機緣下有更多的參與。然而，唯一阻止你看到一切因緣的來龍去脈，就是你的自我侷限。自我觀點的設限，實際上就是限制你的能量，而不是拓展它。在這方面，自我在某種程度上的作用，是如此微小又無趣。師父說，「你們實在很可悲，我不明白。你有這麼多的精力去追求自由；但是，你的想像力卻這般小，你只看到自己所處的小世界。這太沒意思了。」
The thing he was trying to constantly get across to us is that you need to be totally engaged in every minute. If you waste one moment of your awareness, and not be engaged, you’re wasting your time. You need to be fully engaged at the conditions of your time. The conditions of your time are very particular in each day and each year of the time you live in. You need to push the edges of that as far as you can within your condition. As Shifu developed the things he wanted to do, and were available at the moment for what he thought was the way we could push through them. But as the people who we were, we were extremely limited. ♦ To be continued ♦
師父試著想讓我們明白，你必須無時無刻都全神貫注。如果你浪費意識中的一個片刻，沒有投入，那就是你在浪費你的時間。你需要掌握時機，全力以赴。時機在每一天和每一年都是稍縱即逝的，你得盡其所能地去成就它。當師父有想法要落實的時候，即使在我們人力資源有限的情況下，他還是認為我們可以完成。但以當時而言，我們其實仍是極為有限的。♦ 待續 ♦